Q: P.B. Asks, So what was it that convinced you beyond the shadow of a doubt that consciousness was running the whole show and that there were no separate individual i's running around?
The question contains a false premise. The false assumption is that there is in your words, a “you.” That "got convinced."
Investigation happened. Inquiry into the false sometimes (no promises!) reveals it as false … what thinks? What wants to know? And this so happened to show that the “me” that wanted to “be convinced” had no existence in reality. It was merely a thought, only taken on board as a separate “entity” called “me” due to ignorance … ignoring the fact that there is NO evidence whatsoever for the existence of any separate entities anywhere, not here, not anywhere else!
It APPEARS that LOTS of “individuals” are running around. Just seeing the dream as a dream can happen. The dream of "an individual" appears separate and real. That’s the magic show! I watched Magician David Copperfield disappear a train locomotive! It’s absolutely convincing.
Who is it you believe is here that is convinced? There ain’t no such and the idea that there is a person there asking a person here is the cause of all problems. It can be seen through, but NOT by YOU! This seeing is the unquestionable absence of that which asks the question.
This Seeing is NOT a matter of conviction. It’s the absence of belief in either a person or conviction.
The investigation itself is simply a movement of Energy – patterning as all there is; all that is happening, is One-Energy manifesting as This. As-It-Is.
To tell a story, this investigation was apparently prompted in meetings with John Wheeler and ‘Sailor’ Bob, and others ... notably Tony Parsons, Annette Nibley and John Greven. But as we’ve discussed, as that Hindu “crow and coconut” metaphor points to; all notions of cause and effect are a story the mind tells itself to explain Life away. The mind is terrified by the idea that it has ZERO power to cause and control life. See that this mental questioning ... and all the usual seeker-guru posturing ... is simply an escape mechanism. It’s a clever strategy to avoid confronting the absence of the so-called person who has any free will or independent ability to choose or decide, that avoids inquiry like the plague, out of fear for its (illusory) survival.
And, by the way, one subtle way "it" strategizes is to pretend "it" “now knows who it is!” That's a wild wooly madness indeed.
In Actuality there is what is, exactly only happening as it is. Period. Full stop! No doer, only Life ... Life-ING. You are that experiencing, that Energetic Silence that keeps the stars apparently apart...
Totality is Not Two. It is. This is IT. There are no hidden meanings or attainments or realizations to be had. No one to be convinced! Full stop.
Have a beer!
Q: Mainly what was it that detached you from your identification with the I thought as a thing and revealed your true being?The question, like the first one, has a false premise. The false assumption is that there is in your words, a “you” (called “charlie”) that got detached from a false identity. Look at this! A false entity! Who or what “gets detached from” something that has no real existence?" This is chasing a phantom with a phantom. Waking up out of that happens, or it doesn’t. There can be investigation. There can be seeing the false as false. But there is NO "cause and effect" apart from a story (a tale told by an idiot signifying nothing.)
Q: I have a "friend" in Georgia who says there is no cause and effect and that that is the answer, that there is no cause and effect. What say you? Who cares? Who asks? Who says? Who is speaking and who is listening? I suggest that rather than look at what others claim as understanding, you find your own pathless way Home. Investigation seems to be key for most seekers. ESPECIALLY those who claim they are no longer seekers, yet keep asking questions like this! J Or offering conceptual "answers" that are, plainly, nonsense. NO answer is "IT!"
Look: In this final seeing there are NO ANSWERS! Answers are crap. Drop all answers!. Try on simply NOT KNOWING. When it dawned that all my knowledge was actually ignorance, Really! … the end game began here.
Be in unknowing awareness. Just be. Just be.
What never changes? Concepts change. Feelings change. Experiences change. Knowledge changes. Answers change. Beliefs come and go. What never comes and goes? What is always so, what does not sleep, does not wake, does not know, and yet IS?
Rather than compare pointers and get all wrapped up in this or that concept, seeking the “true concept,” just recognize that all this is absolutely futile. The truth when spoken immediately turns to crap. Deal words, all lies! There is NO “Truth.” There is only What IS.
There is no attainment, no realization, no enlightenment, no personal state of endless peace, nothing like that exists. What you are is beyond all this. Inconceivable, un-experienced and un-experienceable, nothing that can be known, said, conceived period full stop!
Q: And how long is a moment?
Okay, where does a "moment" start? Here? Now? When does "now" begin? When is it not now? Where is it not here? All this is merely the story of a "me" that "wants to know...” Who or what IS that "me?" Can you find one anywhere anywhen?
What is always Present PRIOR to "Now?" Where is Awareness BEFORE there is "HERE?"
Without a thought, do you still exist?
What is THAT??
What Never Changes?
What IS? Is there is Aliveness- Energy-Appearing-As This, "momenting" in (apparent time")??
Love,
Charlie
-----------------------------------------------------------
Follow-up:
Q: In your book ["From I Am to I Am, With Love"] you state;"Know that you are presence awareness. Know that you are not a separate "person", also "Do you doubt that you exist? And...that you are aware? No one can deny the fact of his or her own existence." Who is this "you" that you constantly refer to?
The "you" you believe yourself to be. The "you" that asks this question.
Who is to say that the you that is referred to in my previous e-mail (see above and immediately below) is not the same you that you yourself refer to in your book?You do. Or not. As a false entity claiming to be you.
As to your question "who is it you believe is here that got convinced?" Absolutely nobody, the question was purely self to self, I asked myself and believed that a straightforward answer would be the reply.The reply as it always does bubbled up from nowhere and was in response to the energy that propelled the question … the sense of a false entity asking. Then "You" did not like the reply. That IS the false "you," judging and evaluating. Who says what is “straightforward?” Only a judging mind-ego. The false “you” that asks and likes or doesn’t like what is offered out of nowhere to no one, heart to heart, from I am to I am.
If all my questions are coming from the false assumption that there is a me and nothing can be seen through by "me" then to whom are you addressing the statements in your book?Asked and answered above. That stubbornness will make you suffer eventually, if it is not presently! I have some direct experience of that! It’s not funny, and not pleasant. To say it straight, as a friend in England notes, “I hope you die soon.” (The FALSE “you.” What you are cannot die, That was never born!)I never claimed enlightenment, so why is it that my questions are seen any different than those questions posed by those around me?
Who said your questions are seen as different? I wrote, ….ESPECIALLY those who claim they are no longer seekers, yet keep asking questions like this! Or offering conceptual "answers" that are, plainly, nonsense. NO answer is "IT!" This is as much a reference to that “friend” who made a claim the he or she had “the answer” as to the false “you” who has quoted Ramana Maharshi to me and seemed to be making a claim to the “final understanding.” But look, WHO CARES? Only an ego, only a false self center, would give a shit what was said in an e-mail? WHO or WHAT took that personally!!?? Find OUT!
Why are my questions seen as coming from some one who "claims they are no longer seeking and yet keep asking questions like this" as if my so called enquiry is not as genuine and authentic as the inquiry you yourself claimed to have done. If you see me as mis-representing myself I would ask you who it is that sees this?
Here you go again. Can you drop this and just BE what you are? No. Because you have NO control over this posturing and constantly trying to show that “you know.” Been there, suffered in that. There is compassion here. but no tolerance for bullshit.
Are you suffering? Get down and dirty with this. Rather than make all these accusations and couch all your “know-it-all-ness” in “questions,” dig down and find out who the hell you are that wants to know and wants to be wise and clever!If you see me as someone who "claims they are no longer a seeker" I never purported such, otherwise why do you think I attend satsangs?
Who cares? All this is NOT going to allow the natural freedom to be seen. WHO is this who “attends satsangs?” And may I remind you that you did indicate once that you were not a seeker, just liked being with “like minded people.” That was a dead giveaway, whether “you” know it or not!
Just for clarity here, “I” do not see “you” as anything at all. It’s all a show arising in Presence Awareness … appearing as all this dance … a dance of Intelligence, Energy, seemingly real, while what You are hides in plain sight from “you.”
From my "understanding" there is "I" as a concept of a separate entity, which is how most people see themselves, isolated, cut off from that which is, that everything is separate, most people never even conceive of a universal I that is not a thought. Most people believe that what I points to is a body, even Ramana has said that this is the mis-identification, I associated with a body/mind,a thing instead of I seen as subject.Drop it all! This intellectual understanding is the booby prize. It’s another load of crap. Quit spouting all that and LOOK for the one who “knows” all that garbage. Who and where are these most-people? It’s all a story! YOU are not a story, nor a character, nor do you know what is real, and you never will know the Oneness this way. You can’t get Here from there!
My questions are genuine, and I guess the answers that are expected go beyond the intellect, as I stated before when I went to my first satsang I knew that what was being said was true but did not know how I knew.
Again there is the judging mind and its expectations. Your expectations will never ever be fulfilled. Not here, not anywhere! WHO says there is any saying that is TRUE! There is NO such thing as a “said truth!” In ignorance we accept concepts as true and fail to notice the backdrop of pure nondual Silence that these concepts arise within. And as to all knowing, ALL your “knowing” is actually ignorance. The so-called “truth” is found only when there is absolute NOT knowing. You have only gone from conceptual chains of iron to chains of gold.
Now I can say this,that perhaps you have not yet found an “outer teacher” who points out the Reality in a way that resonates for you. There are many fine teachers on my links page. For your personality, I suspect that Annette Nibley might be helpful to you. Go explore, until the suffering is ended.
As for myself I refuse to "parrot" intellectual knowledge, as it has been said "you know it like spit in the mouth" that's when it's genuine.This is funny! After parroting Ramana Maharshi you make this claim!
All this is is yet another concept! Are you FREE? Or are you suffering? Get real, get with the direct and uncompromising pointing, get down off your high horse! It’s YOUR suffering. I could care less whether you are a parrot or not or what judgments the mind you believe is you makes. Get OFF it!All answers are conceptual, it's the space they come from which defines them.More bullshit. Ultimately, there ain’t no defining and ain’t no space and ain’t no “comes from." All there is is this Energy-Aliveness, appearing. You are simply stuck in identification with the mind. Wake up out of this intellectual story and see what is real, the NONCONCEPTUAL overlooked spaceless timeless Isness of Aliveness.
And yes there is still a seeming appearance of a separate entity here, as is stated there is nothing that cause's the effect of the disappearance of the belief in a separate entity, or as Ramana states it, it is like a burnt rope, it still has the appearance of a rope but no longer has the power to bind.
That sounds very wise but you cannot have it both ways. If there is truly seeing that the I is an appearance only and that it’s like a burned rope, then WHY do you fight and argue and ask ask ask all these questions?
Throw away all your books and wise sayings and get down and get real. Go find a teacher you can work with who will n ot buy your bullshit and who you can respect. Your disrespect for the space here is palpable and unwelcome; it benefits no one to argue and fight for concepts and beliefs!
I stand by this from my website:
Perhaps the habit is to identify your self as the thought "I" - as in I Am. Notice right now if the Presence behind the I thought has been overlooked. Break into the habit, being aware of That Presence as your True Identity. This takes no time nor practice. It's just a natural seeing ... right here, right now. And that's the end of seeking; the Natural, Eternal State has been found to be never missing.
And this from The Great Way:
Don't waste time in doubts and arguments that have nothing to do with this. One thing, all things, move among and intermingle without distinction. To live in this realization is to be without anxiety about non-perfection. To live in this faith is the road to non-duality, because the non-dual is one with the trusting mind.Words!The Way is beyond language,for in it there is no yesterdayno tomorrowno today.
(If it is heard heart to heart then all is said and done. if not? That's okay too.)
Have a beer. See a film. Have some fun!
Over and out.
Love allways,
charlie
15 August 2007
You can observe the observation, but not the observer. You know you are the ultimate observer by direct insight, not by a logical process based on observation.
YOU ... Ever-Present, Naked Empty Awareness ... are akin to the great empty sky in which all that arises -- storms or sunlight, clouds or rain, light or darkness -- is effortlessly allowed, unresisted, unmodified, simply lovingly accepted -- as it is and as it is not. The sky Itself remains clear and lucid, untouched by all that appears within it. So it is with your True Nature of Nondual Clear Presence-Awareness. All appearances of thoughts, feelings, identifications, attachments, aversions, opinions, forms, names -- everything that appears to "manifest" -- simply arise, persist only for a while in apparent "time" (itself an appearance!) ... and then disppear back into That ... the endless Space of Your Own Awareness, just as the clouds and rain, sunshine and darkness appear and disappear in the clear Space of the sky.
There is nothing to practise. To know yourself, be yourself. To be yourself, stop imagining yourself to be this or that. Just be. Let your nature emerge. Don't distub your mind with seeking. You have only to look and see. Look at your self, at your own being. You know that you are and you like it. Abandon all imagining, that is all.
